God has spoken through both Nature and the Bible, and thus these two "books" are in harmony. Whether you are a Christian or a skeptic, we hope you will see the reasonable faith of Christianity.
Wednesday, February 15, 2012
My guest post on JW Wartick's site
I've written a guest post (for JW Wartick's site) on life on other planets. Please check it out!
Greg: I read your article on life on other planets. I'm seeking better understanding and discussion on the whole subject and how to reconcile it with me personal Christian beliefs. Bible is somewhat silent on the issue, so most any discussion is "what if" but nevertheless intriguing to me. Perhaps you have insight or could point me in the direction where I could pursue answers. My question involves the resurrection and ascension, the second person of the Godhead now taking on form of resurrected human body, and how that would relate to intelligent life on other planets. IF we ever encountered non human intelligent life from another planet, how would I reconcile that encounter with historical Christian events? Marv Stapleton marv.stapleton@charter.net
Marv, that's a good question, and I think we're in speculation mode about it right now, given there is no biblical data on the issue (as you rightly said). Did you read the comments section at the bottom of the post on JW Wartick's site? What I said there was that I don't think there would be extraterrestrial life made in the Imago Dei that would need to be redeemed, because the bible says the messiah is only to suffer once. JW responded and noted that perhaps Christ's once suffering was redemption for all, even alien life that needed to be redeemed. But I wonder if this would be the case, considering the early church fathers had a doctrine that went something along the lines of "what is not assumed is not saved." Meaning, as our new federal head, Christ had to be fully human in order to redeem humanity. If he also redeemed alien life, would he not need to have an alien nature as well? Just speculation, of course.
Greg agreed and yes I read it. We are in speculation mode, but I guess I'm trying to logically reach a stance on intelligent ET life (yes, likely, probably, no) based on the message of the Bible. Interestingly my childlike faith and logic have led me to this: Does the Bible tell me that the Godhead NOW (and wow that brings up the whole issue of God and time) have "human attributes" (the Word became flesh) and ascended, resurrected, with those same human attributes? If so, that doesn't allow much room for an alien nature, and certainly would make an ET feel alienated (no pun intended). I hate to say it, but I'm at risk of finding a weakness in my personal faith, all highly speculative of course, in the event SETI begins receiving a sequence of prime numbers. Marv
Marv, as a scientist, I honestly do not think we will find other life out there. On the other hand, God is one who loves to create, so again, who knows? But as you have come to realize, the bible is silent on the issue, so I don't think we should form doctrines or question our faith over ET.
But here's something else to consider. The incarnation itself is beyond our ability to fully comprehend. Jesus Christ, the second person of the trinity, is both fully man and fully God. Perhaps it is not so impossible to believe that he could fully take on a third, alien nature. Again, the realm of speculation.
But not to labor the point, Greg (sorry) has He not permanently taken on that human nature? I realize I am introducing the whole concept of time, but He left us in a resurrected human body, correct? I guess I am assuming that precludes taking on the characteristics of another sinful creature on another planet in another time. Can the Word become flesh in another place and time while simultaneously be the resurrected ascended human? Agree it's speculation, and thanks for sharing with me. Marv
Marv, Yes, I believe, as most evangelicals do, that Christ has permanently taken on a human nature. What I was trying to say is that might not preclude also taking on another, alien nature.
This is what I mean. If Jesus truly has both human and divine natures, they must not conflict. It is a mystery, but it is not a contradiction. The way I see it is all of the characteristics of a true human nature are either a subset of those of a divine nature (such as rationality, will, emotion), or at the very least are not in direct opposition to the divine nature (such as having a physical body). This makes sense, as we are made in the image of God. So although we humans don't have all of the characteristics of divinity, nothing we have is something that, were God to have it, he would cease to be God.
In the same way, if these hypothetical aliens are also made in the image of God (and presumably they would be if they were in need of redemption), then neither do any of their characteristics directly conflict with the divine nature of Christ.
So we are left with the question: do any of the characteristics of the alien nature conflict with human nature? Now we are talking about speculation squared. We have no idea if God chose to create other beings that would be in need of redemption, nor do we know what characteristics those beings would have. But I think it's within the realm of plausibility that Christ's nature could include theirs as well.
So, I think that until the evidence tells us more (because biblical evidence is silent, and scientific evidence at the moment points away from there being life elsewhere), we should rest assured in our faith in Christ.
Greg: Agree totally on your last paragraph. Thomas put his hands in Jesus' nail prints and declared Deity. "Today" (this is where I'm struggling), Deity exists as a resurrected human as at least one of His characteristics. So, am I understanding you correctly that (one of many speculative variations) Deity could also have as one of His characteristics alien flesh? Yikes! (How would I line that up with what the Bible DOES say - Word became flesh, ascension)? From another angle, suppose I am a nonhuman alien. How do I feel about this? (Similar to me saying "yikes", above!) I don't know Greg. In this life certainly you and I would never know. And even if there were ETs we will never know because of the vast distances separating us. Perhaps that's all part of God's plan. I guess I'm still scared about making "Contact" though. My feeble brain of an ant cannot begin to comprehend, or even effectively speculate, the ramifications of ET. I do know this might make my list of questions in eternity. Maybe someday we will know! Marv
Greg: I read your article on life on other planets. I'm seeking better understanding and discussion on the whole subject and how to reconcile it with me personal Christian beliefs. Bible is somewhat silent on the issue, so most any discussion is "what if" but nevertheless intriguing to me. Perhaps you have insight or could point me in the direction where I could pursue answers. My question involves the resurrection and ascension, the second person of the Godhead now taking on form of resurrected human body, and how that would relate to intelligent life on other planets. IF we ever encountered non human intelligent life from another planet, how would I reconcile that encounter with historical Christian events?
ReplyDeleteMarv Stapleton
marv.stapleton@charter.net
Marv, that's a good question, and I think we're in speculation mode about it right now, given there is no biblical data on the issue (as you rightly said). Did you read the comments section at the bottom of the post on JW Wartick's site? What I said there was that I don't think there would be extraterrestrial life made in the Imago Dei that would need to be redeemed, because the bible says the messiah is only to suffer once. JW responded and noted that perhaps Christ's once suffering was redemption for all, even alien life that needed to be redeemed. But I wonder if this would be the case, considering the early church fathers had a doctrine that went something along the lines of "what is not assumed is not saved." Meaning, as our new federal head, Christ had to be fully human in order to redeem humanity. If he also redeemed alien life, would he not need to have an alien nature as well? Just speculation, of course.
ReplyDeleteGreg agreed and yes I read it. We are in speculation mode, but I guess I'm trying to logically reach a stance on intelligent ET life (yes, likely, probably, no) based on the message of the Bible. Interestingly my childlike faith and logic have led me to this: Does the Bible tell me that the Godhead NOW (and wow that brings up the whole issue of God and time) have "human attributes" (the Word became flesh) and ascended, resurrected, with those same human attributes? If so, that doesn't allow much room for an alien nature, and certainly would make an ET feel alienated (no pun intended). I hate to say it, but I'm at risk of finding a weakness in my personal faith, all highly speculative of course, in the event SETI begins receiving a sequence of prime numbers.
ReplyDeleteMarv
Marv, as a scientist, I honestly do not think we will find other life out there. On the other hand, God is one who loves to create, so again, who knows? But as you have come to realize, the bible is silent on the issue, so I don't think we should form doctrines or question our faith over ET.
ReplyDeleteBut here's something else to consider. The incarnation itself is beyond our ability to fully comprehend. Jesus Christ, the second person of the trinity, is both fully man and fully God. Perhaps it is not so impossible to believe that he could fully take on a third, alien nature. Again, the realm of speculation.
But not to labor the point, Greg (sorry) has He not permanently taken on that human nature? I realize I am introducing the whole concept of time, but He left us in a resurrected human body, correct? I guess I am assuming that precludes taking on the characteristics of another sinful creature on another planet in another time. Can the Word become flesh in another place and time while simultaneously be the resurrected ascended human? Agree it's speculation, and thanks for sharing with me.
ReplyDeleteMarv
Marv,
ReplyDeleteYes, I believe, as most evangelicals do, that Christ has permanently taken on a human nature. What I was trying to say is that might not preclude also taking on another, alien nature.
This is what I mean. If Jesus truly has both human and divine natures, they must not conflict. It is a mystery, but it is not a contradiction. The way I see it is all of the characteristics of a true human nature are either a subset of those of a divine nature (such as rationality, will, emotion), or at the very least are not in direct opposition to the divine nature (such as having a physical body). This makes sense, as we are made in the image of God. So although we humans don't have all of the characteristics of divinity, nothing we have is something that, were God to have it, he would cease to be God.
In the same way, if these hypothetical aliens are also made in the image of God (and presumably they would be if they were in need of redemption), then neither do any of their characteristics directly conflict with the divine nature of Christ.
So we are left with the question: do any of the characteristics of the alien nature conflict with human nature? Now we are talking about speculation squared. We have no idea if God chose to create other beings that would be in need of redemption, nor do we know what characteristics those beings would have. But I think it's within the realm of plausibility that Christ's nature could include theirs as well.
So, I think that until the evidence tells us more (because biblical evidence is silent, and scientific evidence at the moment points away from there being life elsewhere), we should rest assured in our faith in Christ.
Thoughts?
Greg: Agree totally on your last paragraph.
ReplyDeleteThomas put his hands in Jesus' nail prints and declared Deity.
"Today" (this is where I'm struggling), Deity exists as a resurrected human as at least one of His characteristics.
So, am I understanding you correctly that (one of many speculative variations) Deity could also have as one of His characteristics alien flesh? Yikes! (How would I line that up with what the Bible DOES say - Word became flesh, ascension)?
From another angle, suppose I am a nonhuman alien. How do I feel about this? (Similar to me saying "yikes", above!)
I don't know Greg. In this life certainly you and I would never know. And even if there were ETs we will never know because of the vast distances separating us. Perhaps that's all part of God's plan.
I guess I'm still scared about making "Contact" though. My feeble brain of an ant cannot begin to comprehend, or even effectively speculate, the ramifications of ET. I do know this might make my list of questions in eternity.
Maybe someday we will know!
Marv